Winning entry diesel-u-music VJ award

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continuity-B
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Post by continuity-B »

I'm as much against bad sampling as reactionary anti-sampling rants (and forum discussions on the matter). There *is*, I believe, far to much trite sampling in VJing these days as an excuse for mediocrity and just not making the effort. On the other hand, sampling I see as an extension of montage which has long been accepted as an art practice.

"But is it art?" is always the wrong question. I prefer "Is it good?" and why.

I actually got the metropolis juxtaposition concept right away. I think it's a nice concept and simple enough to be picked up on by the punters too. My criticism for all it's worth (take it or leave it we're all grown ups and I think we should all be able to take it from our peers) is that it was just too much metropolis to the point where I felt it was being re-presented to me in itself. I think more could have been made of the modern day counterpoint aspect to make it more coherent, as it was it seemed a bit discontinuous and to drown under metropolis. It just didn't stand up, but that's the danger in mixing your own work with one of the greatest most visually sumptous films ever made.

That's after watching it closely - I honestly think it'd be perfectly good VJing and sometimes these reels are a bit self defeating for the reason that VJing, i think, is a spontaneous and ephemeral performance and not a document. It becomes something else once you render it as a clip, doesn't it?

meek
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Post by meek »

Id say the difference between Hexstatic "timber" (which is genius) and Inside Us All's effort (which is OK, but hardly award winning in my humble opinion) Is that Hexstatic took something and turned into art (ie documentary footage etc) in a creative way, giving it a new meaning and narrative.
Where as Inside-Us-All took arguably one of the greatest films ever made, and mixed it with there own footage without changing its meaning much or doing anything very exciting with it. Id call that lazy and uncreativie.

If I remix Citizen Kane to some music it might look great (mainly cos it was brilliant in the first place) but if I take your mum's badly shot homevideos and rework them so they have a narrative and look interesting, thats gotta be 1000000x more creative. It simply requires more creativity.

I personally think we should award creativity over technical skills, Ive no idea how or who judges Diesel U Music though, Ive seen past winning entries and theyve been even worse. At least this one didnt make me want to vomit.

James // http://www.meek.tv

pifco
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Post by pifco »

Am with meek

I've got nothing against sampling and often indulge in it myself but to me it's like this:

PWEI sampling Mel and Kim Vs Gabrielle sampling Bob Dylan

Am also interested in continuity-B's point. How can we represent the ephemeral aspect of VJing when as soon as a clip is recorded/rendered/edited it loses it's purpose?

(I don't have an answer by the way)

continuity-B
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Post by continuity-B »

No answer but some thoughts...

I reckon if you are wanting to show off your vj skills then you need to record an actual *live* mix. There's nothing wrong with a wholly edited reel making what is essentially a music video which may (or may not) show off your content, but it's not vjing is it?

That begs the question of splicing larger sections of live mix recordings into a reel. I'd still see that as vjing normally, as long as the editing is not the work itself but simply to join 2 or more discrete sections of recording together.

The best thing in my opinion so far would be a camera recording the actual projection in situ, just short of filling the full frame, as well as the soundtrack which is being vjd to (ie camcorder in the club). This re-presents not only the live mix but the context in which it was performed. There is obviously certain quality issues with this method - you'd need a decent camera and to get manual with the settings for a good image, plus a line out from the mixer either into the camera or another source for overdubbing later.

[Edited on 19-10-2005 by continuity-B]

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous »

I think the word is re-contexualising, ie taking an existing peice and repurposing it, thereby changing its meaning ie what Timber does and IUA doesnt, I also felt the the samples took away more than they added myself, obviously the Judges didnt. IUA have done far better than that, it a sad state of afairs really when their weaker work gets them more props...!
But welcome to the age of SuperStar Vj's, the mainstream always sucks!
It was what you all wanted wasnt it?

thedave
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Post by thedave »

Im interested to see if anyone agrees with me here (the same comment was met with much derision at a recent vj culture seminar from many, including vjanyone) but isnt being a VJ being a video jockey? I accept that most vjs (me included) are also video producers, in the same way as lots of djs produce there own tunes, but if this competition was to reward someone pureley for there vjing skills then it has to be all about how the mix is executed rather than the source material. /-:

DAS BEN
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Post by DAS BEN »

so many vjs have a real ego-problem!
if you are supporting a party, what counts is the performance. if you want to do art, make a video installation in a gallery. nobody expects from a dj to produce all the music himself. it is the art of mixing.

jim
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Post by jim »

You can throw in some great contrast and commentary with the use of effective samples, and guess what i use samples from stuff that I have not got clearance for so sue me. are you saying that fatboy slims songs are not real songs as they are made entirely out of samples? I consider us to be live editors first and for most, weather that means using camera feeds premade stuff or source footage. I find I think very differently when I am vj and shooting. btw most of my own footage is shot, have using computer gen stuff. I personally would see more wrong with a vj who prepared a 8 min clip and just played it as is with out playing around with it, then a vj who mashed up old videos all night. Are you suggesting that when my djing partner in crime plays the acapella of 'That's one small step for man...' moon landing speech, that I shouldn't use the footage in my mix? would it be better to animate the moon landing?

I'm doing a Hunter S Thompson theme party with my band in a month I was planning a mash up of a lot of text from his works as well as Ralph S drawings of their adventures and of course clipping up movie of "fear and loathing in Las Vagas" as well as mashing in audio samples on an mpc. I don't have any permission to do so and it would be impossible to organise permission and if it works then I want to do the same kind of thing with Daft Punk's interstellar 555, a film that was never even screened in this country, and if i can convince the venue to let me I'll give the work a proper chance to be shown in something else other then on a dvd player in someone's lounge room.

So I might be a sham and not a real video artist because I sample, but when I vjed a party for the opening of a Bill viola exhibition, I decided to sample some of his work which he was impressed with (though it was a little stressful as he watched me intensely) and got me another gig at the same exhibition. I'd say if a video artist as renowned as Bill Viola respects sampling and re-editing as a legitimate art form then we should bring it on and mash it up.

Why go to the effort of making an element of a visual you want if someone else has already done, it not like audio producers play all the instruments in a song themself, these days more often then not they use samples, how many painters make their own paint anymore? as we evolve we specialise

continuity-B
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Post by continuity-B »

*yawn*

can we let this thread die now. It's been done a million times before and it's going to go nowhere but flameland

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous »

Hi... as one of the judges of the Diesel VJ category, I feel compelled to post a point.

Why do I see so many VJs slagging off the work of someone like Inside Us All when they didn't enter the competition?

Why not stand up for yourself, get yourself counted and actually enter these things?

Many VJs site great examples of AV work, but generally anyone making really high quality work that takes weeks and weeks to make are not entering competitions. Did anyone else see all the other entries before deciding the work by Inside Us All is not that great by their standards?

I've just watched another bunch of entries for Radio 1's Superstar VJs competition that we're also one of the judges on. Here, the whole idea is about sampling the BBC archives, and of course there were examples of bad work. But there were also a few great mixes - one in particular.

Let your work speak for itself, what's the point in putting other artists down on forums just because you don't like their work. If you don't like someone's work, don't go and see them.

Anyway, point over... :)

Cheers
Graham

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