Clip router

[Oaktown]

As you already know the layer router is one of my favorite tools in Resolume and I use it extensively but lately I've been dreaming of having a clip router that can route content from a specific clip in any deck and be able to launch that clip based on deck/layer/column.

The clip router would have the following selectable attributes (▷ indicates dropdown menu and ☐ for a check box :

• Input
  • Deck ▷
    Layer ▷
    Column ▷
  Launch Clip ☐
  Input Opacity ☐
  Input Bypass ☐
  Duration (in ms)

I would also LOVE the ability to place that clip router in the same layer as the clip it's routing so that I can reduce the number of layers I'm using in my comps. That would allow me to easily fade movies on visual cues without having to have 4 clips in 2 layers.

What say you?

[DHoude]

This could be a great evolution of the initial Layer Router concept. I love the idea and have thought the Layer Router could be so much more. By the description above, I can see layout of each deck would be less important. Less gaps just to make automated column triggers. Less layers to improve performance.

I am just not sure how to implement/use it for total newbies (like myself) when it adds a variable to the expected clip playback behavior. I am going somewhere to help plan the initial concept development of this, I promise

You see Resolume is somewhat limited in layout and trigger options which makes it very predictable, which in turn is why we are discussing this feature (expanded flexibility). My concern is, what happens when we forget we had this clip routed somewhere else? If you trigger a layer router, you expect it will do something different. When you trigger a clip in it's place, it should be easy to visualize what should happen due to Resolume's very predictable behavior. I did see that you said this will be next to the clip in the same layer, but how would we trigger that? (two clips same layer)

I picture this feature more as a plugin or effect that can easily be applied to a clip & Bypassed if needed. If tied to a clip or next to a clip, how can we toggle clip router on and off quickly if it caused an undesired result for a clip? We can't rely on the Layer X (eject) if the Clip & Router are next to each other, then we lose the video on that layer until a clip is re triggered.

Or is it back to the never ending (for me) quest for the most efficient deck layout? Which goes back to how can we use the least amount of layers for best Resolume performance and still get the flexibility we want.

[Zoltán]

I for myself
don't really see how this could speed up workflow or simplify things, how could this be a better way, than copy pasting a clip to where you'd place the clip router.
If you wanted to route a clip in another deck, you'd have to know the clips exact location - which you'd have to remember, or switch to that deck, search for the clip, at this point you could copy it, then switch back, set the layer router, or paste clip.
Remembering 10+ clips exact position in any given deck would be hard for me.

Also, resolume would have to keep all the clips open in other decks, if you want to counter the lag a clip opening would cause, when that clip gets referenced by a new clip router. This would cause all kinds of memory issues for a lot of users, and also imagine you 'd have to wait until all the decks load all their clips.
Then there would also be implications for input sources, where you can have different input settings for a blackmagic device in different decks now, that function would need to go also, because you'd have to open the device in all decks too.

Wouldn't the persistent layer feature work for these scenarios you dream of?

[Oaktown]

I for myself don't really see how this could speed up workflow or simplify things,.

First and with all due respect, we most certainly have different work flows and processes so even if it wouldn't simplify your workflow, let's assume I put some thought into this!

how could this be a better way, than copy pasting a clip to where you'd place the clip router

To answer your question about copy and paste, the one thing you can't do when you paste the actual clip is fade it out on cue if it's a movie which is why I use the layer router so often.

Remembering 10+ clips exact position in any given deck would be hard for me.

I spent a lot of time building comps that will run without my input so I don't need to be able to remember the exact position of a clip during a live set. The key feature I'm looking for is the ability to trigger a specific clip when I click on this clip router.

Wouldn't the persistent layer feature work for these scenarios you dream of?

Completely different features.

I picture this feature more as a plugin or effect that can easily be applied to a clip & Bypassed if needed. If tied to a clip or next to a clip, how can we toggle clip router on and off quickly if it caused an undesired result for a clip? We can't rely on the Layer X (eject) if the Clip & Router are next to each other, then we lose the video on that layer until a clip is re triggered.

Having the clip router available as both a source and an effect would be awesome for sure and probably what I'm looking for when I wrote:

• I would also LOVE the ability to place that clip router in the same layer as the clip it's routing so that I can reduce the number of layers I'm using in my comps. That would allow me to easily fade movies on visual cues without having to have 4 clips in 2 layers.

Assuming the "clip router" effect would have the attributes that I described in my original post, that would give the ability to control clips very precisely with minimal real estate.

[DHoude]

Agreed, I do like the concept.

[Zoltán]

I for myself don't really see how this could speed up workflow or simplify things,.

First and with all due respect, we most certainly have different work flows and processes so even if it wouldn't simplify your workflow, let's assume I put some thought into this!

yes, we likely have and I didn't say it was a bad idea ,
me not seeing the point doesn't make your suggestion a bad one.

how could this be a better way, than copy pasting a clip to where you'd place the clip router

To answer your question about copy and paste, the one thing you can't do when you paste the actual clip is fade it out on cue if it's a movie which is why I use the layer router so often.

I fade out movies on cue by triggering a column with empty clip in the clips layer, I set the other layer clips to ignore column trigger where I want the clips keep playing.
On longer than 10 sec fade in or out (or fade in on cue while playing!) I have a layer router from the clip(opacity at 0), and ignore source opacity, then animate the layer routers opacity.

How do you do this fadeout on cue with the layer router?

[Oaktown]

Ravensc, take a look at this post and here is how the clip router would make this process easier and more controllable:

• - Place all 1-frame DXV files in layer X (As a note, I personally like to pause 1-frame DXV files so I don't have to look at the playhead moving back & forth!)
  - Turn the opacity of all flag clips to 0
  - In the layer above X+1 (or any layer for that matter!), add a "clip router" in the clip above each flag (note that since you could target any clip the "clip router" woudn't have to be directly above the flag clip) .
  - Set the right clips (deck/layer/column #) as input for all the "clip routers"
  - Set the duration of the "clip routers" to what you want in millisecond
  - Set the "clip routers" to any autopilot mode

With the current options available in Resolume, how would you tackle this one?

[Joris]

If I understand correctly, this discussion is mostly related to automation/timeline features in Resolume.

Features like autopilot are very basic features, that were bolted onto the existing clip trigger system. It is very likely that the concept of autopilot as it is now, will not be versatile enough to really do complex timeline automation. Clip Router triggers don't sound very user friendly, and I think the autopilot paradigm is largely to blame for that. It is after all essentially a VJ feature, not a show control feature.

You guys are doing amazing things with autopilot and the layer router. You've pushed it to beyond what we as developers thought was possible with them.

When it comes to new features and extending possibilities, instead of trying to nudge functionality into the paradigm of what we already have, how about you let us know what you'd like to be able to do? Stop thinking about 'how' you'd do it within the limits of the current interface. Just focus on what would make your life easier. Then let us worry about how we can offer it to you UI wise.

For instance, wouldn't you much rather have a timeline on which you can sequence clips, and then decide how long they play by dragging their begin and end handles?

[Oaktown]

Before I dive into responding, let me give all of you guys at the Resolume HQ a HUGE compliment on having developed this amazing piece of software.

I understand that it has some shortcomings and sometimes one has to become extremely creative to make it work in specific ways but I still think it's one of the best media server software out there. As a production company, we own many different systems (including a bunch of Dataton Watchout 6 keys) but as a projection and system designer, Resolume Arena is my go to software more than 80% of the time.

If I understand correctly, this discussion is mostly related to automation/timeline features in Resolume.

You're absolutely correct?

Features like autopilot are very basic features, that were bolted onto the existing clip trigger system. It is very likely that the concept of autopilot as it is now, will not be versatile enough to really do complex timeline automation

Agreed but that's part of the toolkit we currently have to make it work so as they say "when given lemons make lemonade".

Clip Router triggers don't sound very user friendly, and I think the autopilot paradigm is largely to blame for that. It is after all essentially a VJ feature, not a show control feature.

Once again I agree with you about the user friendliness of the clip router but as it stands it would be much more user friendly then what one has to do to create something similar.

It is after all essentially a VJ feature, not a show control feature.

Right again but as you already know I'm not a VJ and I use the autopilot all the time to automate my comps in combination with third-party controllers such as Ravensc's Controller, Vezer and Qlab.

You guys are doing amazing things with autopilot and the layer router. You've pushed it to beyond what we as developers thought was possible with them.

Thank you! I must tell you that the layer router was probably the best thing that happened to Resolume Arena 4 and it opened up a whole world of possibilities!

When it comes to new features and extending possibilities, instead of trying to nudge functionality into the paradigm of what we already have, how about you let us know what you'd like to be able to do? Stop thinking about 'how' you'd do it within the limits of the current interface. Just focus on what would make your life easier. Then let us worry about how we can offer it to you UI wise.

For instance, wouldn't you much rather have a timeline on which you can sequence clips, and then decide how long they play by dragging their being and end handles?

I couldn't agree more so let me take this opportunity to give you my request list.

• 1) a timeline layer
  • - where I can sequence clips as you describe by dragging the I/O markers
    - where I can keyframe parameters such as position, rotation, scale, opacity & speed using various interpolation methods.
    - that can be controlled using LTC or MTC timecode
  2) the ability to use the timeline layer described above
  • - in another timeline layer
    - as a clip in a composition
  3) the ability to send OSC, MIDI and DMX data from timeline layers or source clips back to Arena itself and other devices
  4) being able to change the transition speed and compositing mode at the clip level rather than layer and being able set the transition speed in millisecond without being being limited to 10 seconds
  5) being able to rename columns (see my post on that feature)

[Zoltán]

Ravensc, take a look at this post and here is how the clip router would make this process easier and more controllable:

• - Place all 1-frame DXV files in layer X (As a note, I personally like to pause 1-frame DXV files so I don't have to look at the playhead moving back & forth!)
  - Turn the opacity of all flag clips to 0
  - In the layer above X+1 (or any layer for that matter!), add a "clip router" in the clip above each flag (note that since you could target any clip the "clip router" woudn't have to be directly above the flag clip) .
  - Set the right clips (deck/layer/column #) as input for all the "clip routers"
  - Set the duration of the "clip routers" to what you want in millisecond
  - Set the "clip routers" to any autopilot mode

With the current options available in Resolume, how would you tackle this one?

I usually convert my pngs to dvx with adobe media encoder, which doesn't store the duration in the presets, so, I have made presets that have the 5 seconds default length, but the dxv frame rate is set to 1fps., this results in a small file, but I can batch convert.
I can adjust the duration of the 5 sec clip more easily, with clip speed.
Now if I would set the composition BPM to 60, then set the clips to bpm mode, then every clip beat would be 1 seconds, so a clip that is 23 beats long would be 23 seconds. With the default 120 bpm you would get 0.5 seconds for each beat, with 300 bpm 1 beat would be 200 msecs.
This way I can handle the clips as I would video clips.
But this is one of the scenarios for which I have created my Controller program, so I don't have to do calculations, and I can pause my still clips
Long fades I can do by animating the opacity, one clip for fade in, one clip for fade out.

Now the timeline.
the ideal timeline would
- be able to handle single clip, multiple clips, and whole columns drag'n'drop, with adjustable duration, adjustable start, end and crossfade curves, compositing level.
- have markers which could be placed anywhere in the timeline, with a single hit of a button, and they could

• -control playback - like play, pause, wind down stop, wind up start.-, clips play mode and direction.
  (for example you would play a column in the timeline , it gets to a pause marker, the timeline transport would pause keeping the column playing, then if you hit a button for play, the timeline would resume.)
  - cause the timeline to jump to another marker
  - if you pass a marker, the next markers preview would be shown to see what will happen next.

- have video channel(s), audio channel(s), events/keyframe channel(or integrated into the video/audio channel), dmx, midi, osc channel, separate SMPTE timecode channel with support for audio files and timeline position output to an independent physical output, so Arena could be the Master.
- be controllable by keyboard, midi or osc, to
- play, pause, stop, loop AB, or record the events happening in the composition to the events channel (the recording would not be video! )
- recording would be able to overwrite, add
- you could cut, copy paste, move, resize(also in re-pitch mode), group, and glue clips or events, moving clips, the events would optionally follow.
- have optional ripple edit like ex. Vegas, if you resize clips, others would shift their position.
- have big buttons for the major functions so you could use a touchscreen
and many more, I didn't think of yet