have to trigger a clip to use a cue point?

[VJair]

when in piano mode, to play the clip from from an assigned cue point, you also have to trigger the clip at the same time.

it would be good if pressing the cue point alone would trigger the clip.

[Joris]

I can see how this could be useful, but it would mess up a bunch of things if implemented.

First and foremost, all of the shortcuts assigned to the clip properties window are context dependent (ie they work for the active clip). So when you use the default QWERTY buttons to trigger cue points, they will work on any clip. If you could trigger a clip by pressing a cue point shortcut, Resolume would have no way of knowing which clip to trigger if there was no clip active at that time. Chaos would ensue, random clips would be triggered, software would become self-aware, fire and brimstone, cats and dogs living together, you get the idea

So I'm afraid this is how things work and will stay for now.

Joris

[GeeEs]

Joris, I see this story, but can't understand how it would mess up Avenue... IF.. you do not use the default bindings.. What if you choose to have all cuepoints in your set to be unique mapped to unique key's/MIDI cc's ??

"Resolume would have no way of knowing which clip to trigger if there was no clip active at that time"

Now thats a contradiction..
If there is no clip active, Resolume doesn't need to know what to play isn't it?
Resolume should ignore the command in that case.

I can see the problem only if you use the same bindings to ALL cuepoints in a composition... (like the default QWERTY).
If you use different keys for every cuepoint in your set/compo... this issue shouldn't be that hard to implement.

As a workaround you could bind all cuepoints to the trigger as well I guess.. (you need to have all unique bindings !!!) ie. Use key Q to trigger clip "one" and use Q also as the cuepoint-shortcut for clip "one"

This is not something i tested, but i was thinking on the question today and found this brainwave..

[VJair]

we were using assigned midi keys to trigger, not default key shortcuts ( we aim to be playing this live with as little sequencing as possible )- which then becomes impractical as you then have to press 2 keys at the same time to play from the cue point ( you also get the first frame of the clip played before it jumps to the cue point )

so as midi is 16 channels of 128 notes, you have a potential for 2048 different triggers so there shouldnt be ( imo ) any reason for avenue to get confused as to which clip you are triggering ( as long as you havnt double assigned the midi keys )

the "workaround" we found was to totaly ignore cue points and have seperate clips instead, which seems like a bit of a waste of cue points.

[GeeEs]

so as midi is 16 channels of 128 notes, you have a potential for 2048 different triggers so there shouldnt be ( imo ) any reason for avenue to get confused as to which clip you are triggering ( as long as you havnt double assigned the midi keys )

Exactly, that's what i thought too... You can't haven double controls, or -like the default settings- QWERTY for every possible clip.

Can't you use the same KEY/MIDI cc, to start the clip and also set the cuepoint in stead of pressing 2 buttons?
If that is possible it should not be that hard to make a very small "delay" that just puts the cuepoint 1 millisec before the actual trigger... just a thought...

[Joris]

The problem has to do with context sensitive mappings (application map) and 'hard wired' mappings (composition map). The default QWERTY is a context sensitive keyboard map, which triggers cue points on the active clip, regardless of which clip is loaded.

"Resolume would have no way of knowing which clip to trigger if there was no clip active at that time"

Now thats a contradiction..
If there is no clip active, Resolume doesn't need to know what to play isn't it?
Resolume should ignore the command in that case.

That is actually how it works now, but that's not what VJ Air is asking for. He wants to trigger a clip (which is not active) by triggering a cue point contained in that clip.

so as midi is 16 channels of 128 notes, you have a potential for 2048 different triggers so there shouldnt be ( imo ) any reason for avenue to get confused as to which clip you are triggering ( as long as you havnt double assigned the midi keys )

So I'm assuming you're using Composition midi map for this. The issue is that the behaviour for midi in both modes would need to change, to not have the problem described above. And changing behaviour is something we really like to avoid, since it causes all sorts of backwards compatibility problems, as well as possibly break the entire mapping feature.

Depending on your need, your workaround of having individual clips is a lot more practical. Cue points are meant more to jam out live with than performing a pre-arranged AV track.

Btw, I'm not trying to say you're doing it wrong, or your request is not valid. I'm just trying to explain why it doesn't behave like you expect, and why it's hard to implement it that way.

[VJair]

yeah dont worry, i completely understand that you need to have an order of prioritys for updates requests

you are right, we are using it in composition mode, but with the intention of playing it live ( ie - pressing keys on the keyboard / using midi guitar / midi bass / midi drum pads with as little sequencing as possible )

composition mode seemed more sensible to us as it allows us to move components around avenue without having to constantly reassign midi - from my experience, when making music its rare to get everything right and as you want it on the first go, so the flexibility of being able to move and group clips is usefull. ( we are both educated in musc - up to degree level - and are both also steinberg approved cubase engineers - so midi isnt foreign to us )

[VJair]

That is actually how it works now, but that's not what VJ Air is asking for. He wants to trigger a clip (which is not active) by triggering a cue point contained in that clip.

yeah, this what we were trying to achieve, i think you are right that seperate clips seems to be a much more functional appraoch, which is a shame as it can vastly increase the amount of clips needed in a deck - re-ordering a section of speech for instance can mean the need for a LOT of seperate clips, often more than the screen has the ability to show on 1 layer at a time.

[GeeEs]

That is actually how it works now, but that's not what VJ Air is asking for. He wants to trigger a clip (which is not active) by triggering a cue point contained in that clip.

I see... and I do understand that in piano mode not 1 clip will be active unless it's triggered... but...

If you take 1 unique control (Keyboard or MIDI) and bind that to a unique cuepoint of a clip and it's trigger, what could possibly go wrong ?

.. I'm home right now and couldn't resist proving my theory, and it actually works quite well!

- I set Avenue's triggerstyle to Piano mode
- Deleted all key and MIDI maps (just to be sure)
- In application mapping (deck mode) mapped numpad 5 to trigger clip 1 (on layer 1 / collumn 1) (also works on composition mapping here)
- Still in application mapping.. also mapped numpad 5 to a quepoint wich i set somewhere halfway the clip.
- Close mapping menu.

Ok.. nothing is active.. Avenue is in piano trigger mode.. and i start playing a random clip on layer 1...
now, when i press numpad 5... the mapped clip will pop in at exactly the cuepoint what i had in mind... when i release it... nothing is active...

Isn't that what you tried to achieve?

[VJair]

yeah it is.

now try assigning 2 cuepoints in the same clip.....