Question about changing resolution

[DHoude]

Hi guys, my very first show went great!. Client loved it, tons of compliments. But realistically I have allot to learn. So that being said, I had the surprise of my life when I got setup at the venue.

I have a very modern laptop, HDMI out only running NVIDIA 870m. All footage and plugins for Resolume have been based off of basic1080i. My client has a bunch of HD TVs (40 ish) and the system starts out with me plugging into a Crestron DM-TX-201-C (which says it support 1080) which I think is HD base T.

So I get there on NYE (we could not test before then), plug in and boot. My laptop would not boot with that Crestron piece plugged in. My laptop showed Bios screen and then a hardware check screen with my SATA devices and stopped there. It did that 4 times and I had to hold the power button to force shut down each time.

So I booted without the video connected to see if I can just do my DJ duties, all worked well. Then we plugged in the Video system and immediately my video changes to 640 x 480. We get the laptop screen back to 1080, but the "Extended" monitor (Crestron) would only support 640 x 480 as the highest or go lower! My question to you is, how do I handle these situations? I got it running with some re programming of my text and logo placements. But it was odd to me that all my 1080 footage and Composition size was 1080, playing fairly acceptable on 640 x 480. Changing my Compositions size to 640 x 480 seemed to make it worse. At least with Composition size at 1080 x 1920, it still went edge to edge of the wide screens. Where 640 x 480 letterboxed (clipped) the picture.

My big problem was Resolume was SO sluggish all night (obviously doing allot of work) where I would click a deck and it would take 5 sec to react and another 5 to show some of my buttons. I would have to refresh by scrolling up and down to reveal clips that had not drawn yet and run my mouse over deck tabs to show up again. I have not seen this since I went to all DXV 3. I just want to know how to "Re scale" my entire show if required without all this performance lag.

I will concentrate on the Crestron parts next. They had other issues too, like my video would only show up on the Big 4 screen (4 TVs assembled as 1 full picture). I just can't understand how an HDMI device forced 640 x 480!

[He2neg]

You are on the right way,

the 640x480 is the lowest resolution your Creston Unit accept.
For me it sounds like some kind of EDID Problem between your Laptop & the Creston. Somehow it should be possible to extend your desktop / set your 2cnd Screen / set our output ... to 1080p and then everything should be fine.

If you run into some Limits of your Hardware running this high content i advice to go down to 1280x720 (only composition, not 2cnd Desktop) , most customers wont even notice the Different and most Screens display this resolution without and blank space.

[Oaktown]

the 640x480 is the lowest resolution your Creston Unit accept.
For me it sounds like some kind of EDID Problem between your Laptop & the Creston. Somehow it should be possible to extend your desktop / set your 2cnd Screen / set our output ... to 1080p and then everything should be fine.

Since the Creston is an HDBaseT unit, the EDID is passed directly from the monitor/projector video controller to the laptop. DHoude, since you have a laptop did you try to connect directly into the output bypassing the HDBaseT unit?

But it was odd to me that all my 1080 footage and Composition size was 1080, playing fairly acceptable on 640 x 480. Changing my Compositions size to 640 x 480 seemed to make it worse. At least with Composition size at 1080 x 1920, it still went edge to edge of the wide screens. Where 640 x 480 letterboxed (clipped) the picture.

That's because Resolume does a great job at scaling down (or up). When you have a 1920x1080 comp and a 640x480 output, Resolume handles the scaling but if you reduce the size of the composition, you don't have the data at all and you end up with "garbage in, garbage out"

[quote'"DHoude"]My big problem was Resolume was SO sluggish all night (obviously doing allot of work) where I would click a deck and it would take 5 sec to react and another 5 to show some of my buttons. I would have to refresh by scrolling up and down to reveal clips that had not drawn yet and run my mouse over deck tabs to show up again. I have not seen this since I went to all DXV 3. I just want to know how to "Re scale" my entire show if required without all this performance lag. [/quote]
When you were testing your comp before hand, did you try it under load or just looking at the UI on the laptop. I test all my shows in my studio using Gefen Detective Plus units programmed to an EDID similar to the actual outputs I'll be using.

How's your comp built. You say 1920x1080 but how many layers, how many clips per deck, etc..? And is all your artwork in DXV3 or do you have a bunch of PNG? Also, what's the resolution of your artwork?

For instance, I have a show coming up where I'm outputting from a MBP to two Datapath X4 set at 2048x1536 and 3840x2160 so I program 2 Gefen Detective Plus DVI units to 2048x1536 and 3840x2160 and I use that with at the end of DL DVI cables with Apple MiniDP to DL DVI adapters. That way, even though I can't see the actual output, I know how my computer will handle the load before I show up at the gig.

I've got probably 20 Gefen Detective Plus in HDMI an DVI that I use for this purpose. Then I use them during the show so that my GPU doesn't black out if one output accidentally get disconnected.

I will concentrate on the Crestron parts next. They had other issues too, like my video would only show up on the Big 4 screen (4 TVs assembled as 1 full picture). I just can't understand how an HDMI device forced 640 x 480!

Can you describe the full setup?

[DHoude]

Going to try to slim this down a bit, let me know if I miss something.

did you try to connect directly into the output bypassing the HDBaseT unit?

No, this was a very large facility. Everything was way up in the air (not accessible). I can say that when I hook directly to my TVs I can go all the way up to 4 k without issue. We tried multiple cables too (all 25'-40'), no change.

When you were testing your comp before hand, did you try it under load or just looking at the UI on the laptop.

Both, initially assembled on laptop. But some testing after when directly connected to a 46" LCD TV at 1080 (what it was all built for). I don't have tons of hours that way, but I am sure it has not acted this way since converting all my clips to DXV 3.

I am open to the "Gefen Detective Plus" if you think I need it. I really have no real world experience with big video dist systems, just direct connect. Could this be the "go between" that would make my laptop boot correctly with video connected? I see the point "so that my GPU doesn't black out if one output accidentally get disconnected", kind of like a DMX splitter can break apart a daisy chain to keep more lights on during failure.

How's your comp built. You say 1920x1080 but how many layers, how many clips per deck, etc..? And is all your artwork in DXV3 or do you have a bunch of PNG?

9 Layers, I am new so less than 200 total clips all converted to DXV3. Between 30 and 40 clips per deck, 70 tops on 2 of the 10 decks. Decks are only 24 clips wide, so I use a couple layers to separate background clips, top clips and accents (one shot quick clips). Then some effect presets on top of them all. Plenty of room to drag around live and learn what order I like to assemble it in.

I do still have 1 Logo PNG with flames that I can't get to look right in DXV 3, the flames kind of "bloom" and look more solid. All Video and Single Frame DXV 3 artwork is all 1920 x 1080, I was very strict about that. I do also have the Doc Optic Resgen set that does seem to load more slowly (it is 65 effect arrangements that make video clips). As well a many of the Ten Ton Ray Gun SWF text plugins. It all really runs good when connected directly to a normal HDTV running 1080 (under load). I was even between 70 and 100 FPS the entire night. I can operate at 160+ FPS directly connected at home.

I will say that I do run Spout, routing Virtual DJ into Resolume which I can still do at 120 FPS, but still.. I have never had refresh issues until I got forced to 640 x 480.

"Can you describe the full setup?

I want to, but I was busy re building some sections of the show before my set. In my case the sound was more important, so i tested that all first. Then I tried the Comp size and a few other things, but quickly realized that I just had to re position some elements and I could limp through the night. Set ended at 3 am and I was beat and mgr was gone.

I assumed it was mainly the Crestron DM-TX-201-C because that was what got me connected to HD Base T and what Windows reported as the Extended monitor. That was also all that was in my closet for video, the rest was all audio racks. This is a permanent install in a large restaurant, so it went Cat 5 from there to some back room that I did not have access to. I will see if I can get access to the data closet in the future.

[Oaktown]

We tried multiple cables too (all 25'-40'),

In my opinion, for this kind of length (25' to 40'), you should use an HDMI amp/repeater/booster

I am open to the "Gefen Detective Plus" if you think I need it.

I'm not saying you need it but that's how I personally test my systems to make sure comps will run as I expect. Once you start using one of these, you'll wonder how you were able to work without it before!

assumed it was mainly the Crestron DM-TX-201-C because that was what got me connected to HD Base T and what Windows reported as the Extended monitor.

The Crestron DM-TX-201-C is HDBaseT so it should be be plug and play. Also, I'm assuming that considering it's part of permanent installation, it works, correct? Did the club manager mentioned they'd had the same problem before? I'm thinking your issue is coming from the connection from your laptop to the Crestron unit.

Also you mentioned something else: "Big 4 screen (4 TVs assembled as 1 full picture)".

• Are these 4 HD TV's run as a 4K setup or 4 HD TV's run at 960x540 to make an HD setup?
  Is that what's connected to the Crestron DM-TX-201-C?
  Do you know what kind of HDBaseT hub and video controller they are using to break the signal into four quarters?

Also, are you outputting only one 1920x1080 signal and where is the EDID coming from?

[DHoude]

Does the Gen Detective amp the signal too? I will probably get one in a bit. Not that it is ideal, but I have used a 25' HDMI for probably 3 years now with no issue (direct connect). I do see your point though, I am just getting started here.

I am not really sure of the full resolution of the 4 screen. I think it is 4 - 1080 screens. But I did not see the splitter that fed them. One of the sound guys knew there was a resolution issue (same as I saw, 640 x 480). There were other issues because the rest of the screens would not display my laptop at all. Crestron offered no help, but I will see if my prospective client will let me back in off hours to have a look. I will have to be certified before Crestron will support me. No good in the short term... I need to be careful as I am trying to get video work out of this. But if they see my value and reciprocate, I will offer to help and suggest we work on the system.


I am only outputting 1 - 1920 x 1080. This thread is the first time I have ever heard EDID, so not totally familiar with the term. All I can say is I know noting past the Crestron part mentioned above. For sure there is more that exists, but I was brought in as a sub contractor. I was told it all works as HD and I just plug in. I need some permission to get back in there and I am working on developing that relationship.

[Oaktown]

Does the Gen Detective amp the signal too? I will probably get one in a bit. Not that it is ideal, but I have used a 25' HDMI for probably 3 years now with no issue (direct connect). I do see your point though, I am just getting started here.

The Gefen Detective Plus is an EDID (Extended Display Identification Data) and not an amp. What it does is record the EDID from the display or display controller and makes it available to the "source reliably and on a continuous basis". In your case, you'd want to have access to the display that is downstream from the HDBaseT transmission system so that you can record the EDID and make it available to your laptop.

I am not really sure of the full resolution of the 4 screen. I think it is 4 - 1080 screens. But I did not see the splitter that fed them. One of the sound guys knew there was a resolution issue (same as I saw, 640 x 480).

If you're intended to feed 1920x1080 into the system, the screens are probably getting 960x510 from the controller. From what you describe, I have a feeling that the system is HDMI to Crestron HDBaseT distribution system to a display controller (ie. Datapath X4) connected to four HD TV each getting 1/4 of the 1920x1080 image scaled back up to 1920x1080.

If the system is not wired properly, the EDID can get lost in the process and your laptop sees it as 640x480. Chances are that the cable between the HDBaseT distribution system and the controller is where the signal drops and I bet the controller is not getting 1920x1080.

[DHoude]

Thanks for explaing all that. I was looking some up, but that really put it all together. It would seem far more likely that it is a cable loss thing. The setup button only controls DHCP/network IP setup.

I suspect there is some kind of distribution after the HDbaseT. I also suspect that may feed the TVs. What is interesting, I wonder how the EDID works out with many TVs and some kind of distribution (distribution is only speculation of course).

Question now is, do I approach a fix or do I leave it alone and just re work graphics everytime I get there? assuming there is a show #2