Hello everyone,
just to check if it's a known issue.
In the club where I work as resident we set up a windows machine as main, which output the ndi stream of laptop we connect either my laptop and guests, when only one machine is connected the output fps is from 60 to 30 but when two are connected the frames drops aroung 15 fps, keep in mind that the composition i is 1920x1080 and only two clip are in the layer (the resident laptop and eventually the guest ones)
Of course the workaround is to disable the ndi from the machine that is not outputting, but as I said before i would like to know if everyone has experienced the same.
Ndi dropping frames when multiple streams added
Re: Ndi dropping frames when multiple streams added
what system are you running?
Re: Ndi dropping frames when multiple streams added
The main machine is windows 10
Intel i5 2.90GHz
Ram 8.00 GB
Video card nVidia GeForce GTX 660
Connection with a dedicated switch pro curve 1GbE
The guest machine usually Mac book m1 or alienware
Intel i5 2.90GHz
Ram 8.00 GB
Video card nVidia GeForce GTX 660
Connection with a dedicated switch pro curve 1GbE
The guest machine usually Mac book m1 or alienware
Re: Ndi dropping frames when multiple streams added
NDI uses CPU to encode and decode. and an i5 is a mid tier CPU. FPS shouldn't be 15 (maybe the clips are not DXV3 and your CPU is also rendering the clips as well as the NDI?) but you should be able to get 2-4 3G NDI streams working fine on an i5. NDI is an expensive process though.
Re: Ndi dropping frames when multiple streams added
The clips are dvx3 (I didn’t write it because I always assieme it’s standard practice but as more I go around it’s not)
I will try to add another ndi stream and see if the fps drop more.
The other workaround could be the use syphon using my m1 as a bridge when we have another mac as a guest so I send only one ndi stream.
I will also check if the frames drops also with two spouts streaming.
Just for testing
I will try to add another ndi stream and see if the fps drop more.
The other workaround could be the use syphon using my m1 as a bridge when we have another mac as a guest so I send only one ndi stream.
I will also check if the frames drops also with two spouts streaming.
Just for testing
Re: Ndi dropping frames when multiple streams added
Spout/Syphon is the way to go if it's on the same machine. That process doesn't use any resources as it's a direct GPU memory share.
If you're not going 4K these: https://www.amazon.com/BlueAVS-Capture- ... 6YWWD?th=1
Are also an option. Great unit's for the price.
There's an issue with them and Windows 11 that causes a memory leak but there's a ticket open for getting that fixed. (The work around is to bring that device into OBS then send OBS out Spout)
If you're not going 4K these: https://www.amazon.com/BlueAVS-Capture- ... 6YWWD?th=1
Are also an option. Great unit's for the price.
There's an issue with them and Windows 11 that causes a memory leak but there's a ticket open for getting that fixed. (The work around is to bring that device into OBS then send OBS out Spout)
Re: Ndi dropping frames when multiple streams added
I second the spout option.
Also, yes consolidating the NDI streams to another PC and then only sending one to the resolume PC would significantly free up resources. The issue would arise if you need to effect each NDI stream in a different way as only one at a time would be seen because the NDI ingest PC would essentially serve as a switcher that switches the NDI stream that is being fed to resolume.
I actually usually recommend this way though anyway.
Unfortunately, Newtek has not kept up with NDI and its been 2 years now without signs of NDI 6 that could take advantage of WiFi 6E, AV1, and other recent technologies
As far as spout goes there really are no devices or apps that really work to enable this on the camera level as the way spout works is significantly different than NDI
However, there are some tools that enable some pretty cool transfer options between spout and ndi. You can find them here: https://leadedge.github.io
It also might be worth experimenting with isolation of tasks. Where resolume isn't handling too much. OBS can send to resolume via NDI and you can utilize NVENC encoding to perhaps provide an easier decode on your CPU. Its gonna be hit or miss though and there's other overhead to consider, but trial and error to get the best distribution of resources will eventually yield a good performing experience.
Also, yes consolidating the NDI streams to another PC and then only sending one to the resolume PC would significantly free up resources. The issue would arise if you need to effect each NDI stream in a different way as only one at a time would be seen because the NDI ingest PC would essentially serve as a switcher that switches the NDI stream that is being fed to resolume.
I actually usually recommend this way though anyway.
Unfortunately, Newtek has not kept up with NDI and its been 2 years now without signs of NDI 6 that could take advantage of WiFi 6E, AV1, and other recent technologies
As far as spout goes there really are no devices or apps that really work to enable this on the camera level as the way spout works is significantly different than NDI
However, there are some tools that enable some pretty cool transfer options between spout and ndi. You can find them here: https://leadedge.github.io
It also might be worth experimenting with isolation of tasks. Where resolume isn't handling too much. OBS can send to resolume via NDI and you can utilize NVENC encoding to perhaps provide an easier decode on your CPU. Its gonna be hit or miss though and there's other overhead to consider, but trial and error to get the best distribution of resources will eventually yield a good performing experience.
Re: Ndi dropping frames when multiple streams added
Spout was just a test no issue because we need to connected either mac or pc, the capture card wasn't suitable (we have magwell 4k but we use in when we expand the ledwall for bigger event) because we need to connect multiple pc and the pc is physically in back of the foh, it was easy to cable with ethernet. Because we use the main machine basically an switcher (and a back up plan in case someone is late or an issue with its pc/mac and we could use a loop).
I proceded with others test, I sent multiple ndi stream from my mac, 10, with resolume, obs, syphon to ndi, synesthesia, and the frame rate was always constant, it still drop when you connect a different machine, meaning the streams doesn't come from the same ip (to explain it quick), but for now we keep the workaround disabling the ndi stream that is should not outputting.
I would like to thank you for your answers and suggestions.
I proceded with others test, I sent multiple ndi stream from my mac, 10, with resolume, obs, syphon to ndi, synesthesia, and the frame rate was always constant, it still drop when you connect a different machine, meaning the streams doesn't come from the same ip (to explain it quick), but for now we keep the workaround disabling the ndi stream that is should not outputting.
I would like to thank you for your answers and suggestions.
Re: Ndi dropping frames when multiple streams added
Its interesting that multiple computers cause the issue, but multiple streams do not.
This would possibly indicate a network issue or collision somewhere. It could also be mismatched timings being set by NDI with one machine set to network and the other set to source or a combination of such.
If you are not already aware of the NDI Core Tools here is the updated link: https://ndi.video/tools/ndi-core-suite/
Those can possibly be a better and faster way to troubleshoot things. It is free.
Another option would be to create a hyper local network to test this on to rule out onsite network infrastructure. Usually can be accomplished with a low cost switch or router that supports the speed of connections you have. I'm guessing this is why the fps drops as I bet somewhere along the chain there is a 100Mbps connection instead of 1Gbps. Ideally to maintain 30 or 60 fps you'll need 100Mbps per stream in the entire chain to the final PC that consolidates. Even if all the hardware is compatible a single old Cat5 cable could be the culprit. I've seen crazier hiccups at locations.
If you have a particular computer / device that seems to be causing an issue you could always utilize a BirdDog NDI box though that may be more of a investment than upgrading the device to compatibility in the first place. Depends. I would say if still wanted to attempt to solve this would be to look at the network path and see if it is >Gigabit through the entire chain.
This would possibly indicate a network issue or collision somewhere. It could also be mismatched timings being set by NDI with one machine set to network and the other set to source or a combination of such.
If you are not already aware of the NDI Core Tools here is the updated link: https://ndi.video/tools/ndi-core-suite/
Those can possibly be a better and faster way to troubleshoot things. It is free.
Another option would be to create a hyper local network to test this on to rule out onsite network infrastructure. Usually can be accomplished with a low cost switch or router that supports the speed of connections you have. I'm guessing this is why the fps drops as I bet somewhere along the chain there is a 100Mbps connection instead of 1Gbps. Ideally to maintain 30 or 60 fps you'll need 100Mbps per stream in the entire chain to the final PC that consolidates. Even if all the hardware is compatible a single old Cat5 cable could be the culprit. I've seen crazier hiccups at locations.
If you have a particular computer / device that seems to be causing an issue you could always utilize a BirdDog NDI box though that may be more of a investment than upgrading the device to compatibility in the first place. Depends. I would say if still wanted to attempt to solve this would be to look at the network path and see if it is >Gigabit through the entire chain.
Re: Ndi dropping frames when multiple streams added
Thank you Kai for the answer.
The chain is 1Gb for sure, tested and check two times, from cables to router, because as you said an old or not so well cat5 somewhere could be the issues, but it was not
We will make some updates during the winter and see if the problem will goes away.
BirdDog NDI is interesting and will probably give it a chance.
Thank you so much.
The chain is 1Gb for sure, tested and check two times, from cables to router, because as you said an old or not so well cat5 somewhere could be the issues, but it was not
We will make some updates during the winter and see if the problem will goes away.
BirdDog NDI is interesting and will probably give it a chance.
Thank you so much.