Hi all,
For a new project (fix install) i'm orientating for the best hardware software solution.
Roomsize 20x20m with on all four walls projection.
North and south walls with 8x3m edge blending screens. Both with two 1080p projectors.
East and west walls both with one 1080p projector. About 5.3x3m. 6 projectors is totall.
It will be a multi-functional room. So the client wants to project background images and logo's in most times. But also there will be 4 inputs for connecting a presentation laptop on one or more screens.
that will be no problem on the regular screens of course. But how to do that for the edge blends screens? these ratios will be not 16:9. so we like to put them in the middle of the edge blend screens.
Our idea: We like to run all these (6) hd projectors from a resolume server. then we are totally free to do whatever is needed on every screen. we can capture the four HDMI inputs and insert them in resolume?? then an external laptop with powerpoint in a regular format can be viewed.
We do have projects running for more then 3 years now with an 8 screen edgeblending in Resolume. But a canvas combination with two edge blends and two regular 16:9 is new?
can anyone advise me how to handle this and what hardware is needed?
is it possible to handle the edge blends in Resolume? or do the edge blends outside resolume?
is it a good idea to use Panasonic RZ series. led/laser and edge blending insite? anyone used this already.
is it better to run everything on SDI. so convert hdmi inputs to Hd sdi and then true blackmagic decklink quad 2 or are there other options to capture 4 hdmi signals in a steaddy way.
on the output: will a gtx 1080 8gb card and with two dual heads2go give me the needed 2+2 edge blends out?
we will run all cables on HDBaseT or fiber.
is there a Crestron vs OSC gateway?? as we control the projectors and screens by Crestron on a touchsreen. we like to make a Gui to simple add these 4 hdmi captures on the screens, resize and position them. anyone?
all ideas and hardware advise is wellcome.
regards, Michel
Two edge blends and two 1080p in a canvas
Re: Two edge blends and two 1080p in a canvas
Hey Beambuster,
It's a shame no one has answered your post yet! Then again, you are basically asking the forum to do your job for you.
Lucky for you, I've done a similar installation for a multi-purpose event space in NYC. Check it out - http://lightbox.io/ - the website is a bit outdated, here's the instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lightboxlab/
As a 24 year-old freelancer, I have to at least ask if this install will be in NYC, and if so, mention that I am for hire and would be happy to come on board to make this the best install possible.
But as a dedicated Resolume forum member, and someone who has been in your position and received help from senior users, I went along and did some of the work for you. (Gotta keep my skills sharp. Plus, I'd love to see if more experienced users approve my approach).
Here is my attempt at a professional consultation, taking into account hardware, physical design, and budget.
PT I: HARDWARE SPECS
1. Ditch the Crestron
If you're locked into using a Crestron system, well, fine. But if you're designing the room around a Resolume server, then the Crestron unit seems like a colossal waste of money and functionally redundant. If you want to shut projectors on-and-off during events, or close their shutters, I would network all 6 projectors to a wired LAN (run ethernet through the ceiling) and control them from the PC using PJLink. You can control Resolume wirelessly from a tablet via OSC using TouchOSC. If you're feeling spendy, hire a Processing programmer (or me!) to design beautiful custom layouts/buttons/sliders to control what you need in a sexy way. You would then export the Processing sketch to Android and control it from an Android tablet. All of that is much cheaper (and sexier, faster, more responsive, and more customizable) than a Crestron unit.
2. Capture: Blackmagic Decklink Duo 2 + 4x Mini Converter HDMI to SDI
The Decklink Duo 2 has four independent channels, all capable of 1080p60, for your 4 inputs. I wouldn't worry about capturing data resolutions (WUXGA:1920x1200, XGA: 1024x768, etc.) because pretty much all new laptops are capable of 1080p via HDMI. I wouldn't recommend using any BMD card for outputs, because it would require the GPU to send every frame it renders to the BMD card before it reaches your projectors. It would put undue stress on the BMD card and under-utilize your GPU. Which brings me to my next point...
3. GPU: GTX1080, Titan X, or Titan Z
I know we've all read that the GTX1080 is something like 1.5x faster than the Titan X, but the truth is I haven't seen the Resolume benchmarks with the 1080 to rest assured. For something with 6+ outputs we used a Titan X and it SCREAMS. I don't think we actually posted it, but our 4K Benchmark maxed out at 16 layers, with 5 outputs + GUI. We would have 12+ layers and 100+ columns regularly, including hundreds of PNGs, without fail. (We'll get to PC specs below). I recommend the EVGA Superclocked Titan X, but if you want to be future-proof, and have the $$$$, spring for a Titan Z.
4. Downstream: Datapath FX4
At our space, we skimped on the downstream devices by using two Matrox TripleHead2Go's, and we suffered for it. For the most part, they work fine. However, they overheat very easily, and when they do, they present intermittent blackouts/dropped frames (unacceptable for client work), or some nasty digital static. Also, the Matrox software would sometimes forget our screen configuration, or eset resolution and refresh rates. I couldn't isolate the source, but it seems that when you connect multiple TH2Go's to one PC, the software has trouble managing them all. Spend the extra money here and spare yourself of the stress and headaches, and save yourself hours of lost time re-configuring––after all, time is your most valuable resource.
PT II: PHYSICAL DESIGN / SIGNAL PATH / WORKFLOW / GENERAL ADVICE
So, let's start with the Resolume server. You will need a PC motherboard that has at least one PCIe 3x16 lane and two PCIe 3x4 lanes. (That's not hard to find, but you'll probably want a model that has more lanes, for expansion.) One 3x16 lane for your GPU, one 3x4 for the Decklink, and one 3x4 for a PCIe SSD. (You definitely want to run your OS on a PCIe SSD.) If you want screaming speeds, you can put an Intel 750 Series PCIe SSD into a 3x8 slot, or you can get a M.2 SSD and an adapter that fits the SSD into a 3x4 slot. You could also get a Motherboard with an M.2 SSD slot, but I'm not sure if that slot is bootable. I've had trouble trying to make an M.2 SSD the boot drive before, but maybe it can be done.
Don't go below 500GB on your boot drive. Install ONLY your OS, Resolume, and any plugins/Resolume-related software (such as the Resolume Grabber or ravensc's wonderful software) onto this drive. I would also keep ONLY the content you are using for your current event on this drive. Since you mostly will be using the Blackmagic inputs, this shouldn't be too heavy. You can probably keep your logo and background files (as 1 frame DXV .mov's) on this drive as well.
If you plan on incorporating any additional content (which you should), or having events where a lot of HD video and mapping will be involved, install two or more SATA SSD's in a RAID-0 array for storage. (This is advice I got from Oaktown, a master in his own right).
Any of the GPU's I recommend will come with 4 Displayport outputs:
1. Your GUI (I recommend either 1920x1080 or 1600x900, to save processing where it counts).
2. Datapath FX4. The FX4 has a Displayport input. Make sure to get a Displayport cable that supports 4K @ 60fps. Route outputs 1 & 2 from the FX4 to your North Wall projectors, and route outputs 3 & 4 to your South Wall projectors. You will want to place the FX 4 closer to your projectors (maybe in the ceiling somewhere), with the shorter cables coming OUT of the FX4, and the longer cable running IN the FX4, from the PC.
3. West Wall projector
4. East Wall projector
As far as getting those cables to reach your projectors/Datapath, you may need cable extenders, either over fiber or ethernet. If the projectors you use have HDBaseT inputs, you may be able to just get 6 HDBaseT adapters. I can't say for sure if one option is better than the other here. (Anyone?)
For the presenters, I recommend you designate 4 podiums, respectively. What I would do is run SDI cables from the Decklink card in the PC, behind the walls, and then run up them inside the podiums, so that the SDI cables emerge through the hole at the top of the podium. (Most podiums have a pre-drilled hole on their top surface for running cables.) I would then connect each SDI cable to a Mini Converter, which would be bolted on top of each podium, and run power for the Mini Converters inside the podium. So consider your podium shape, make sure that it hides the converter box. This way, you could get away with using short HDMI cables for your presenters.
Hide all the cabling you can! There really is no shortage of ways to figure that out. If you only run them through the walls, and are OK with some cable showing, you could hide all your slack under each podium, and then move the podiums around the room at will. You may need to drill a small cable-sized hole at the bottom of each podium, but you can then cap the holes in plastic to make them look nice. Or have custom ones fabricated. (Again, this all depends on your budget.)
Save the majority of your budget for the projectors (minimum 6K lumens!!). Personally, I think the Panasonic DZ series look great. If you want to go with Laser projectors, and edge blend them in-projector, be my guest, but you are then dealing with something manufacturer-specific. I would recommend that you handle all blending in Resolume. In fact, I've gone ahead and got started on something for you...
PT III: RESOLUME COMPOSITION
There are two ways you can do this. (Honestly, there are probably more, but I'm trying to make this as efficient as possible).
In both of these, there is a layer for each wall. You could duplicate these layers, and then get to layering content, and they will still only show up on each wall, because of how I made the screen setup. I also included a mask on each layer, set to the right resolution, so that you can drop in content of any size and it won't spill onto the other walls.
1. 2x2 Grid. Simple enough, this was my first thought. You may prefer this if you ever want to include a separate monitor for Preview monitoring, in which case this is only a little bit wider than 16:9. This would also fit very nicely on a 21:9 Ultrawide monitor.
2. A horizontal composition. While the preview window becomes a bit weird, this setup allows you to not only have designated layers for each wall, but to also to have a unified "background" layer, onto which you can place animated content that "travels" around the room, from wall to wall. You could also find super wide panorama images online to use as backgrounds, but if the projection screens themselves are not fully seamless, it may look weird. I put the walls in clockwise order for this reason.
I gotta jet to a gig, but thanks for making my afternoon a productive one! I hope this helps. I've attached Resolume compositions that should help get you started, along with the .png files I used as layer masks, and the screen setup .xml files.
It's a shame no one has answered your post yet! Then again, you are basically asking the forum to do your job for you.
Lucky for you, I've done a similar installation for a multi-purpose event space in NYC. Check it out - http://lightbox.io/ - the website is a bit outdated, here's the instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lightboxlab/
As a 24 year-old freelancer, I have to at least ask if this install will be in NYC, and if so, mention that I am for hire and would be happy to come on board to make this the best install possible.
But as a dedicated Resolume forum member, and someone who has been in your position and received help from senior users, I went along and did some of the work for you. (Gotta keep my skills sharp. Plus, I'd love to see if more experienced users approve my approach).
Here is my attempt at a professional consultation, taking into account hardware, physical design, and budget.
PT I: HARDWARE SPECS
1. Ditch the Crestron
If you're locked into using a Crestron system, well, fine. But if you're designing the room around a Resolume server, then the Crestron unit seems like a colossal waste of money and functionally redundant. If you want to shut projectors on-and-off during events, or close their shutters, I would network all 6 projectors to a wired LAN (run ethernet through the ceiling) and control them from the PC using PJLink. You can control Resolume wirelessly from a tablet via OSC using TouchOSC. If you're feeling spendy, hire a Processing programmer (or me!) to design beautiful custom layouts/buttons/sliders to control what you need in a sexy way. You would then export the Processing sketch to Android and control it from an Android tablet. All of that is much cheaper (and sexier, faster, more responsive, and more customizable) than a Crestron unit.
2. Capture: Blackmagic Decklink Duo 2 + 4x Mini Converter HDMI to SDI
The Decklink Duo 2 has four independent channels, all capable of 1080p60, for your 4 inputs. I wouldn't worry about capturing data resolutions (WUXGA:1920x1200, XGA: 1024x768, etc.) because pretty much all new laptops are capable of 1080p via HDMI. I wouldn't recommend using any BMD card for outputs, because it would require the GPU to send every frame it renders to the BMD card before it reaches your projectors. It would put undue stress on the BMD card and under-utilize your GPU. Which brings me to my next point...
3. GPU: GTX1080, Titan X, or Titan Z
I know we've all read that the GTX1080 is something like 1.5x faster than the Titan X, but the truth is I haven't seen the Resolume benchmarks with the 1080 to rest assured. For something with 6+ outputs we used a Titan X and it SCREAMS. I don't think we actually posted it, but our 4K Benchmark maxed out at 16 layers, with 5 outputs + GUI. We would have 12+ layers and 100+ columns regularly, including hundreds of PNGs, without fail. (We'll get to PC specs below). I recommend the EVGA Superclocked Titan X, but if you want to be future-proof, and have the $$$$, spring for a Titan Z.
4. Downstream: Datapath FX4
At our space, we skimped on the downstream devices by using two Matrox TripleHead2Go's, and we suffered for it. For the most part, they work fine. However, they overheat very easily, and when they do, they present intermittent blackouts/dropped frames (unacceptable for client work), or some nasty digital static. Also, the Matrox software would sometimes forget our screen configuration, or eset resolution and refresh rates. I couldn't isolate the source, but it seems that when you connect multiple TH2Go's to one PC, the software has trouble managing them all. Spend the extra money here and spare yourself of the stress and headaches, and save yourself hours of lost time re-configuring––after all, time is your most valuable resource.
PT II: PHYSICAL DESIGN / SIGNAL PATH / WORKFLOW / GENERAL ADVICE
So, let's start with the Resolume server. You will need a PC motherboard that has at least one PCIe 3x16 lane and two PCIe 3x4 lanes. (That's not hard to find, but you'll probably want a model that has more lanes, for expansion.) One 3x16 lane for your GPU, one 3x4 for the Decklink, and one 3x4 for a PCIe SSD. (You definitely want to run your OS on a PCIe SSD.) If you want screaming speeds, you can put an Intel 750 Series PCIe SSD into a 3x8 slot, or you can get a M.2 SSD and an adapter that fits the SSD into a 3x4 slot. You could also get a Motherboard with an M.2 SSD slot, but I'm not sure if that slot is bootable. I've had trouble trying to make an M.2 SSD the boot drive before, but maybe it can be done.
Don't go below 500GB on your boot drive. Install ONLY your OS, Resolume, and any plugins/Resolume-related software (such as the Resolume Grabber or ravensc's wonderful software) onto this drive. I would also keep ONLY the content you are using for your current event on this drive. Since you mostly will be using the Blackmagic inputs, this shouldn't be too heavy. You can probably keep your logo and background files (as 1 frame DXV .mov's) on this drive as well.
If you plan on incorporating any additional content (which you should), or having events where a lot of HD video and mapping will be involved, install two or more SATA SSD's in a RAID-0 array for storage. (This is advice I got from Oaktown, a master in his own right).
Any of the GPU's I recommend will come with 4 Displayport outputs:
1. Your GUI (I recommend either 1920x1080 or 1600x900, to save processing where it counts).
2. Datapath FX4. The FX4 has a Displayport input. Make sure to get a Displayport cable that supports 4K @ 60fps. Route outputs 1 & 2 from the FX4 to your North Wall projectors, and route outputs 3 & 4 to your South Wall projectors. You will want to place the FX 4 closer to your projectors (maybe in the ceiling somewhere), with the shorter cables coming OUT of the FX4, and the longer cable running IN the FX4, from the PC.
3. West Wall projector
4. East Wall projector
As far as getting those cables to reach your projectors/Datapath, you may need cable extenders, either over fiber or ethernet. If the projectors you use have HDBaseT inputs, you may be able to just get 6 HDBaseT adapters. I can't say for sure if one option is better than the other here. (Anyone?)
For the presenters, I recommend you designate 4 podiums, respectively. What I would do is run SDI cables from the Decklink card in the PC, behind the walls, and then run up them inside the podiums, so that the SDI cables emerge through the hole at the top of the podium. (Most podiums have a pre-drilled hole on their top surface for running cables.) I would then connect each SDI cable to a Mini Converter, which would be bolted on top of each podium, and run power for the Mini Converters inside the podium. So consider your podium shape, make sure that it hides the converter box. This way, you could get away with using short HDMI cables for your presenters.
Hide all the cabling you can! There really is no shortage of ways to figure that out. If you only run them through the walls, and are OK with some cable showing, you could hide all your slack under each podium, and then move the podiums around the room at will. You may need to drill a small cable-sized hole at the bottom of each podium, but you can then cap the holes in plastic to make them look nice. Or have custom ones fabricated. (Again, this all depends on your budget.)
Save the majority of your budget for the projectors (minimum 6K lumens!!). Personally, I think the Panasonic DZ series look great. If you want to go with Laser projectors, and edge blend them in-projector, be my guest, but you are then dealing with something manufacturer-specific. I would recommend that you handle all blending in Resolume. In fact, I've gone ahead and got started on something for you...
PT III: RESOLUME COMPOSITION
There are two ways you can do this. (Honestly, there are probably more, but I'm trying to make this as efficient as possible).
In both of these, there is a layer for each wall. You could duplicate these layers, and then get to layering content, and they will still only show up on each wall, because of how I made the screen setup. I also included a mask on each layer, set to the right resolution, so that you can drop in content of any size and it won't spill onto the other walls.
1. 2x2 Grid. Simple enough, this was my first thought. You may prefer this if you ever want to include a separate monitor for Preview monitoring, in which case this is only a little bit wider than 16:9. This would also fit very nicely on a 21:9 Ultrawide monitor.
2. A horizontal composition. While the preview window becomes a bit weird, this setup allows you to not only have designated layers for each wall, but to also to have a unified "background" layer, onto which you can place animated content that "travels" around the room, from wall to wall. You could also find super wide panorama images online to use as backgrounds, but if the projection screens themselves are not fully seamless, it may look weird. I put the walls in clockwise order for this reason.
I gotta jet to a gig, but thanks for making my afternoon a productive one! I hope this helps. I've attached Resolume compositions that should help get you started, along with the .png files I used as layer masks, and the screen setup .xml files.
- Attachments
-
- Beambuster-comps.zip
- Resolume compositions and screen setups for Beambuster
- (98.74 KiB) Downloaded 327 times
Re: Two edge blends and two 1080p in a canvas
The bar for forum replies just got raised into the stratosphere.
-
Beambuster
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 20:20
Re: Two edge blends and two 1080p in a canvas
Dear Lightbx,
What a great answer...thank you for that. First I tought my story was maybe to long and no one was interested.
But if they ever need someone to write the next manual of Resolume 7, you are the man.
Unfortunately this fix install will take place in Hilversum the Netherlands, so we can't hire you I think...
I think we both are on the same line. I'm not sure the blackmagic SDI is the right choice for capturing in this case.
I 've heard some good responce on the Magewell 4 hdmi capture card as well. Is there some one using this product in Resolume already? I know it is used in software like VMix.
yes the Crestron matrix is there as a routing and redundant system. But for this client redundantsy is important.
Also the Crestron system will be used for control because this event hall must also be used without a technician in some cases. All long run cables will be on HDBaseT indeed.
I will post more if the project starts.
Regards,
Michel
What a great answer...thank you for that. First I tought my story was maybe to long and no one was interested.
But if they ever need someone to write the next manual of Resolume 7, you are the man.
Unfortunately this fix install will take place in Hilversum the Netherlands, so we can't hire you I think...
I think we both are on the same line. I'm not sure the blackmagic SDI is the right choice for capturing in this case.
I 've heard some good responce on the Magewell 4 hdmi capture card as well. Is there some one using this product in Resolume already? I know it is used in software like VMix.
yes the Crestron matrix is there as a routing and redundant system. But for this client redundantsy is important.
Also the Crestron system will be used for control because this event hall must also be used without a technician in some cases. All long run cables will be on HDBaseT indeed.
I will post more if the project starts.
Regards,
Michel
Re: Two edge blends and two 1080p in a canvas
Glad to hear back! Happy to help, when I have the time. Hope you find the comp/screensetup of some use. In any case, I would maybe just run the Crestron controls with one device, and control TouchOSC with a second device (both likely tablets).
Are you using an HDBaseT output device? Or do you mean you will use ethernet extenders? Do you plan to use HDBaseT just for the long cable run, and not use it to control projectors? What projector models are you looking at?
Originally I suggested the Blackmagic SDI capture because of the long cable runs and native compliance with Resolume. Why do you feel BMD is not the way to go?
Are you using an HDBaseT output device? Or do you mean you will use ethernet extenders? Do you plan to use HDBaseT just for the long cable run, and not use it to control projectors? What projector models are you looking at?
Originally I suggested the Blackmagic SDI capture because of the long cable runs and native compliance with Resolume. Why do you feel BMD is not the way to go?